This interview appears in Issue 20 of The Mockingbird print magazine, which is all about success and failure. Find out more here, or subscribe here.
If you’re alive today, you’ve either watched Ted Lasso or you’ve been told to watch Ted Lasso — and if you haven’t been told to watch Ted Lasso, now you have: Watch Ted Lasso! The much-praised show follows an American football coach as he attempts to head up an English football team — a seemingly slapstick premise that doesn’t at all reflect the depth plumbed over the show’s two seasons. Balancing humor with heart, Ted Lasso offers psychological insight and emotional catharsis, and deftly upends popular definitions of success and failure.
Ted, played by a winsome Jason Sudeikis, prioritizes his players over their performances. He determinedly scales their protective fences and rattles off puns and wise aphorisms, opining, for example, that the goldfish is the happiest animal on Earth. “You know why? It’s got a ten-second memory.” Ted, like the proverbial goldfish, proceeds with a non-judgmental openness that to onlookers looks like foolishness. This gracious guru posts a crooked sign on the locker room wall that only says, “Believe.” It’s no wonder Brené Brown, the well-known champion of vulnerability, has pronounced herself president of the Ted Lasso Fan Club (aka TLFC).
For this issue of the magazine, we were privileged to interview actor Nick Mohammed, who plays “Nate the Great” (so dubbed by Ted), one of the series’ more complicated characters.
Spoilers follow for both the first and second seasons, particularly regarding Nate’s character arc. Beginning the show as a “kit man” responsible for the players’ equipment, Nate is lifted out of relative obscurity by Ted, who ultimately promotes him to assistant coach. Throughout the second season, however, success goes to Nate’s head, which also happens to be graying from stress. By the end, he makes an enemy of everyone who was once his friend. Scrolling social media, he turns to the public for affirmation and brutally betrays Ted’s trust. The about-face, which Mohammed describes as having an “Empire Strikes Back tone,” is seismic.
Mohammed plays Nate with a dynamic mixture of humor, magnetism, and humility. He spoke to us from London, where he was prepping to film the show’s third season. Originally from Leeds, Mohammed graduated from Durham University, where he studied geophysics. He was figuring he would work for an oil company before his comedy career took off, most notably with Ted Lasso. He also helms a cyber-security comedy, Intelligence, and practices magic on the regular. We spoke to him around dinner time.
Mockingbird
So what did you have for dinner?
Nick Mohammed
I’m actually cooking at the moment. We’re having a casserole, and so I’m literally chopping veg right now.
M
Are you the family cook?
NM
No, I wouldn’t say so! My wife and I share it between us. Once the kids are down, we can chill out and all that.
M
Well, thanks for taking the time to chat. For starters, why do you think Ted Lasso has taken off the way it has?
NM
Well, it’s probably quite wise to not anticipate any kind of success, but I do remember when we started filming back in 2019, I said, this is good — it feels different. At the time, the comedy landscape was quite snarky and cynical, which, don’t get me wrong, I love a lot of those comedies. But it felt genuinely positive and hopeful to have a character in Ted who didn’t have an ounce of cynicism.
And obviously no one aimed to release a show during a global pandemic, but the fact that it had a positive and hopeful message at its core I think resonated with people at a time when they were going through lots of very difficult stuff.
And as a comedy-drama, Ted Lasso manages equally to let people laugh and also feel the emotion, without sacrificing on either, and that’s a very difficult thing to do.
M
When we first meet Nate, he can’t believe that Ted — the coach — would care to even know his name. He starts out as this real underdog.
Yet you’re given this incredible plot-line with so much character development. I feel like that speaks to the way that the show conceives of the underdog — offering an amazing story to a person who in another show might have been mostly a side character.
NM
And it’s not just with Nate. You take any of those characters — Sam, Jamie Tartt, Roy, Rebecca. Everyone gets their moment to shine. All the characters are developing in their own ways.
And the bits and pieces I’ve heard about Season Three — I’m like, that’s so exciting. You just know the writers are going to serve everyone so well.
But often in shows, especially with such great leads as we have, there isn’t space to have the supporting characters have their own arcs. And as someone who has previously been in a lot of sitcoms where those characters are just foils and don’t really develop at all — I think it’s a pleasure to stay with the characters a lot longer and see them develop over periods of time.
M
Ted Lasso is ostensibly a sports show, so it’s very surprising when Season One ends with a huge loss — the team is relegated from the Premier League. What is the show saying about success in that case?
NM
When people were introduced to Ted Lasso, I think they understood superficially that, okay, this is going to be a sports show and it’s going to have all the tropes you’d expect. But quite quickly people learned that we’re going to do more than that — we’re going to look into masculinity, and mental health, and redemption.
And you look at the success of someone like Ted and the way that he is able to be this catalyst for good in almost everyone’s life — yet he’s got a failed marriage, and he’s set up for failure at his job. So how individuals quantify success, you know, depends on what prism they’re viewing that success through.
As the audience, we approach that Season One finale in the same way. We’re disappointed for AFC Richmond, and we feel that devastating loss, but we also see success in other things, like when Nate gets promoted from kit man to coach. That scene is just euphoric.
M
But then the finale of Season Two also ends with a loss — the loss of Nate, as a coach — even though the team wins.
NM
It’s almost like the Season One finale is inverted in the Season Two finale.
And I feel like Ted is in a really dark place as well. Despite his therapy with Dr. Sharon, he’s still not fixed, is Ted, and that interaction with Nate at the end — Nate’s ripping the “Believe” sign in two — that’s a huge gut punch to Ted, massively.
Because Ted doesn’t really care about football. He cares about people, and I think the show cares about people more than it cares about football. So I think it’s correct to say that at the end of Season Two, we’re all feeling a little bit lost. And I think viewers are feeling that.
M
That episode is titled “Inverting the Pyramid of Success.” What does that mean to you?
NM
Well, I do know that “inverting the pyramid” is a football thing, right? It’s the name of a football book — is that right?
M
Yes, I just looked it up, and it’s way over my head. I’m sorry — I don’t follow the sport.
NM
Likewise! I don’t follow football at all! I have to ask so many questions. Brendan, who plays Coach Beard, is a football nut. He knows everything, and he hides loads of Easter eggs in the show. But my dad’s a huge football fan, and one Christmas I did get him a book called Inverting the Pyramid, because he’s massively into the sport. So that title has a slight double meaning.
And the “pyramid of success” is a diagram posted on the wall behind Ted’s desk.[1] And so in that finale, just before they’re about to start the match, Nate is staring up at that pyramid, and also — I don’t think I’ve ever said this in an interview before — that’s the closest Nate has ever got to Ted’s desk, the seat of power in the show.
The fact that Nate’s almost pacing behind the chair where Ted sits is, like, a metaphor for Nate seeing himself in this powerful position. And if you watch him in the later episodes, you’ll notice he’s been getting closer and closer to where Ted sits. So for me as an actor, that was quite fun.
M
The bedrock of the pyramid includes these deeper values like “friendship” and “loyalty,” while closer to the top there’s “competitive greatness” and “confidence.” As Nate gets more obsessed with success, he seems to be inverting that, and ignoring the more foundational values.
NM
I remember mouthing the words towards the top of the pyramid — for Nate, they’re almost his mantra. Along the axis of the pyramid is “ambition,” and then at the top there’s “competitiveness.” He’s using this symbolism as a way of trying to achieve success.
Obviously what he doesn’t really realize is, he’s ignoring a lot of the real values of human morality at the expense of that success.
M
Were you satisfied with Nate’s character arc, personally?
NM
I was aware that it was going to happen quite early on; when we were filming Season One, Jason had this plan outlined. This was before it had even got recommissioned. But I had known for a while that Nate was effectively going to become the villain, and Season Two would chart his downfall.
To be honest, I was slightly in two minds, because on the one hand I relish the opportunity as an actor to do something different. Because it was taking this darker turn, I realized that Nate was going to have far fewer jokes and moments for comedy, which is my safe area. So I knew it was going to be a challenge.
But then on top of that, yes, I knew it would possibly polarize the audience. I don’t know if “polarize” is the right word, because I think most people appreciated what the writers did — and I think the writers did a great job at portraying it quite realistically. But yeah, my goodness, audiences didn’t enjoy seeing it.
M
Nate justifies his behavior by saying that Ted abandoned him. In your view, is he right?
NM
A lot of this obviously stems from Nate’s toxic relationship with his dad. He’s never been able to please his dad, despite having these moments of success in his career. And now that he’s getting more attention professionally, things are going to his head, and he’s turning against all the wrong people. The things he’s saying to Ted are what he should be saying to his father.
The thing is, with Nate, he’s never really had a real relationship with anybody, male or female. He’s always been at the receiving end of a bully, whether that’s in the locker room or through his father’s actions or lack of love. And Ted did bring him to this place where he suddenly felt that he had real worth and value. It’s not Ted’s fault, but he has been blind to what’s becoming of Nate, because of his own personal problems. They’ve just been going through very different stories. And so without Ted’s support he’s floundering, is Nate.
That scene at the end of Season Two [when Nate and Ted have their falling out] is the only scene just between Ted and Nate. It feels like that can’t be true, but it is, and that was really deliberate. I remember Jason telling me, way back when we were filming Season One, to allow this tension between them, to allow the viewers to try and empathize with the fact that Nate has felt abandoned because he hasn’t had that one-on-one time with Ted that he needs.
M
Nate has that practice of spitting on himself in the mirror to hype himself up. What’s that about?
NM
First of all I should say that that is based on a real person. I can’t quite remember … It was either a friend of the writers, or they had seen it happen — a guy would spit at himself in the mirror as a way of motivating himself. Obviously, metaphorically, it’s weird. It was also quite gross to film because, you know, it’s really frowned upon to be spitting in COVID. I didn’t like doing it.
But I like to think that Nate hates what he’s becoming, and I think he recognizes that it’s not him. Some of his behavior is so far removed from Season One Nate. He’s quite romanced by the notion of being, I guess, more powerful. But I think ultimately he massively oversteps the mark.
At one point, when he goes to ask Rebecca for advice, she basically says to him that you deserve to be here and that you should do what you need to do to get what you want, effectively. But he’s taken that slightly the wrong way, or taken it to an extreme.
M
Has there been a memorable bit of feedback that you’ve gotten since you’ve been on the show, or is there something notable somebody said to you in response to the show?
NM
I mean, listen, I try to stay off social media, partly because it was slightly blowing up, particularly when we got into the latter half of the season. And I also was aware that Nate starts scrolling through social media in an unhealthy way.
M
I was just going to say that!
NM
Haha. So it might be a bit of life imitating art here, and I don’t want to get sucked into that.
But when the finale came out, I was genuinely moved by people who were getting in contact. So I did allow myself once a day to just have a little look, and then I’d come off it. The one that really struck me was that Lin-Manuel Miranda got in contact. He sent me a direct message, and I was like, “What! Why is he getting in contact?” It was a real eye-opener that so many people were watching this show, that it’s connecting with people.
So many people were saying that they understood Nate, actually, and that even though they didn’t like what they were seeing, they could relate to it — they could relate to, you know, the bullied becoming a bully. People were really opening up about it and talking about their mental health.
It was strange — psychologists were discussing it in threads, and people were writing essays and bringing it up in school. I’ve been involved in other shows that have sort of done well, but nothing that’s had as strong an emotional reaction as this.
The ripping of the “Believe” sign got an especially big reaction — that sign had always been this emblem of hope and optimism, and to see that ripped in two … People felt like, “Ah, what are you doing? Like, what has happened?”
M
Would you prefer to see Nate continue to be a villain, or would you want him to have a redemptive arc eventually?
NM
It is fun being a villain, because I don’t get to play that role much. But it would be great to see him redeemed. Personally, I like a story that goes full circle, and I think it would be a nice completion of the circle if we saw Nate redeemed.
But he’s done some pretty nasty things, has Nate, like going to the press about Ted’s panic attack. He’s been quite backstabbing. So it’s going to take a lot for him to be redeemed, and I don’t know whether people would accept it. You know, the audience has already been tested with Nate, so it’s quite a tall order to ask them to see his nice side again.
M
I’m reminded of what you said earlier — that Ted Lasso is refreshing because it’s so genuinely hopeful. So I’m rooting for Nate, too. To see him come back would be in keeping with that powerful message of hope. You know, we don’t always have to be so cynical.
NM
Yeah, completely. But all I know is that they’ve got some exciting things planned. Actually, in full disclosure, we start filming in three weeks, and I went for a drink yesterday with Brendan, who plays Coach Beard [and is also a writer for the show]. So we just had a quick drink — actually at the pub where they film a lot of Ted Lasso scenes, which was a bit weird — but I was like, “I’m not going to ask you questions, I’m not, I’m not,” and then I had a drink, and I was like, “Oh, maybe just one question I’ll ask,” and then, “Actually, I’ve got one more question.”
But whether they’re able to redeem Nate, or whether he’s irredeemable, I can’t say I know the answer yet — hand on the heart.
No spoilers #TedLasso pic.twitter.com/zrEhqoLviS
— Nick Mohammed (@nickmohammed) May 10, 2022
M
How have you processed your success over the last few years? It’s been pretty astronomical.
NM
You’re right in saying that these last three years I’ve been particularly fortunate, and I’m really grateful for that. But what’s been nice is that it’s taken a while to get to this point. I’ve managed to get a really nice group of friends around me, and my wife and I got married back in 2014, and now we’ve got a family, and we’re quite private, and very stable. And obviously Ted Lasso was a casting that happened to go my direction, but a lot of that is just luck. And particularly with Ted Lasso, I think we just all felt lucky to be working, and to be doing something that resonates with people.
I’m also aware that at some point, when Ted Lasso finishes, and Intelligence as well, I’ll be like, “Right, what’s next?” You’ve always got to be looking ahead and not, I guess, resting on your laurels or getting too self-aggrandizing.
M
I read that in addition to being a comedian and actor, you’re also a magician. I’m curious: what’s the most memorable trick you’ve pulled off?
NM
The one I’m most proud of is the famous Houdini water tank escape — I learned how to do it for a live show onstage. It involves getting in this big vat of water and having someone padlock me in and close the lid. And you can’t breathe — I got up to two minutes underwater! And that was always quite scary.
M
That sounds very scary.
NM
We did, I think, 70 shows. But even though we were quite used to it, and it was all choreographed, and I had these assistants who were watching to make sure that I wasn’t in any real trouble — there was always a point when I was like, “Hmm, it would be a shame if, you know, I did want to breathe just now.”
So that’s the one that stands out as the most mentally and physically challenging, and I don’t think I’d ever do it again. But listen, I’m a huge fan of mentalism and card magic, and I used to work as a magician at hotels and weddings, and that was always close-up stuff. But I still read about it every night. I’ve got magic books on the go. It’s my passion project, really.
*****
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